The war in Ukraine, the pandemic, and earlier the financial crisis - each of these events clearly demonstrated that it is impossible to separate the economy from the state. These crises proved that the oft-repeated mantra of a free market functioning independently of the decisions of state institutions does not translate into reality. On the other hand, state domination in the economy turns out to be counterproductive, as it blocks development, innovation and flexibility. So how to reconcile these two worlds? When is the state in the economy too little, and when is it too much? This topic will be discussed by Prof. Justin Yifu Lin, economist of Peking University, creator of the concept of new structural economics, and Prof. Alojzy Z. Nowak, rector of Warsaw University.